Imyaka ibiri mu Nteko, ibyo yasezeranyije abaturage, ifatwa rya Rusesabagina – Ikiganiro na Frank Habineza | Rwanda
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Imyaka ibiri mu Nteko, ibyo yasezeranyije abaturage, ifatwa rya Rusesabagina – Ikiganiro na Frank Habineza

Ikiganiro n'Ikinyamakuru, IGIHE.COM: Dr Frank Habineza mu 2013 yagiye ku biro bya RGB agiye gufata ibyangombwa by’ishyaka rye. Icyo gihe yashakaga kwiyamamaza mu matora y’abadepite ariko kubera kubibona atinze, ntiyabasha kwiyamamaza, ataha yimyiza imoso, amatora yakurikiyeho yahise ahindura umuvuno ashaka kuba Perezida wa Repubulika.

 Ni urugendo rurerure kuri we kuko muri ayo matora nabwo atahiriwe, kuko yagize 0.5% mu gihe yumvaga ko make yagira ari 25%. Ubu amaze imyaka ibiri mu Nteko Ishinga Amategeko nyuma y’uko mu matora y’abadepite yo mu 2018 ishyaka rye ryabonye amajwi angana na 5% bituma ribona intebe ebyiri.

Kuri we ni urugendo rwiza ariko rutari rworoshye. Mu kiganiro na IGIHE yagarutse ku mbogamizi yahuye nazo, ibyo yasezeranyije abaturage, ndetse n’isomo abatavuga rumwe n’u Rwanda bakwiye kwigira ku ifatwa rya Paul Rusesabagina uherutse gutabwa muri yombi.

Ikiganiro kirambuye yagiranye na IGIHE :

IGIHE: Hashize imyaka itatu navuga ko idasanzwe kuri Greeen party, imyaka mwiyamamarijemo ku mwanya w’Umukuru w’Igihugu, imyaka mwinjiye mu Nteko Ishinga Amategeko, uru rugendo rwa Green Party murusobanura mute ?

Habineza Frank: Ni imyaka itatu yabanjirijwe n’indi myaka y’akazi kenshi cyane nako katoroshye, ndumva ahari kwari ugushaka ibyangombwa by’ishyaka kugira ngo twemerwe mu rwego rw’amategeko .

Navuga ko kuva tugiye mu matora ya Perezida wa Repubulika habaye ikintu cyiza umuntu yakwishimira.

Abantu benshi bafataga ishyaka ryacu nk’aho ari umutwe w’iterabwoba bagakomeza guhohotera abarwanashyaka bacu. Ariko nyuma tumaze kwiyamamaza mu matora ya Perezida wa Repubulika, ba bantu bagabanyije uwo murego wo gukomeza guhohotera ba bantu bacu.

Babonye ko ishyaka ryacu ari ishyaka ryemewe, ari ishyaka rifite gahunda. Kuko twe gahunda zacu twari twazisobanuye mu gihugu cyose.

IGIHE: Uvuze ku matora y’Umukuru w’Igihugu, ubundi ujya kwiyamamaza wumvaga ufite icyizere kingana iki ?

Frank Habineza: Mu by’ukuri njye kugira ngo niyemeze kujya kwiyamamaza, ni uko numvaga mfite amahirwe yo gutsinda, nkavuga nti:" dukoze neza twatsinda". Ariko twari tubizi ko bigoye ko twatsinda, kuko twari duhanganye n’umukandida ukomeye kandi ashyigikiwe n’indi mitwe ya politiki yose. Ariko twari dufite amahirwe kuko twari tumaze gukora ikigereranyo mu Banyarwanda bose, twumva icyumvirizo uko badukunda kandi bifuza ko undi mukandida cyangwa undi mu Perezida.

Rero numvaga dutsinze twagira intsinzi nk’iya 52% cyangwa 53%. Niko nabyumvaga. Sinavugaga ko ari intsinzi nk’iya 90% cyangwa 80% ariko biramutse byanze ku buryo tutabura 30% cyangwa 25%.

Ni icyo cyizere twari dufite kuko twari tumaze hafi imyaka umunani dukora Politiki. Twari dufite amatwi n’amaso hose mu gihugu, twari tuzi uko ibintu bihagaze.

IGIHE: Abantu babibukira no mu nkiko murega leta ku bijyanye no kuvugurura itegeko nshinga. Naho ntabwo mwatsinze…

Frank Habineza: Urabizi ko tutabyemeye, turabigaragaza no mu Rukiko rw’Ikirenga turarega biza kurangira abantu bavuga ngo twatsinzwe ariko byaje kurangira Itegeko Nshinga ridahindutse tutatsinzwe kuko mu bitekerezo twari dufite hari ibyaje guhinduka.

Nk’ubu manda twavugaga ko yava ku myaka irindwi ikaza kuba itanu. Byarangiye igitekerezo cyemewe iba imyaka itanu. Twavugaga ko manda zigomba kuba ebyiri z’imyaka itanu gusa tuza gutsindwa bongeyemo indi ngingo yemerera Perezida wari uriho. Ngereranyije twatsinze 50% nabo batsinda 50%. Ntabwo twatsinze ijana ku ijana ariko hari icyo twabonye kuko iyo niyo navuga ko ari Politiki.

IGIHE: Hari umunsi umwe wari mu kiganiro kuri televiziyo, umwe mu bantu mwari kumwe akubwira ko utazabona na 5%. Ubundi wowe nihe wakuraga icyizere ?

Frank Habineza: Uriya ntabwo yari umuntu, yari gatumwa, yari uwo kuza ngo aduce intege, yari ahagarariye abandi baduca intege ariko yakozwe n’isoni kuko ntitwigeze ducika intege.

IGIHE: Bisobanuye iki kuri mwe nk’ishyaka rivuga ko ritavuga rumwe na leta kuba uyu munsi muri mu Nteko Ishinga Amategeko ?

Frank Habineza: Byabaye ikintu cyiza kuri Politiki y’u Rwanda. Bifite icyo byahinduye kuri Politiki. Kuko bigaragara ko habayeho kwihanganira umuntu mutavuga rumwe, ku Rwanda rwose cyabaye ikintu cyiza atari kuri twe gusa cyane cyane n’ishyaka riri ku butegetsi.

Kandi mwabonye n’ikigo cya Freedom House cyo muri Amerika kireberera ibya demokarasi cyahaye amanota u Rwanda. Rero dukomeje kugenda tujya imbere, tukajya mu nteko tugatanga ibitekerezo, u Rwanda rwahindura isura yarwo ku ruhando mpuzamahanga, kandi iyo bihindutse bigirira akamaro abanyarwanda. Kuko iyo uvuye hano ukajya muri Senegal, ukavuga ngo uri umunyarwanda, bavuga ngo ni cya gihugu cyiza , cy’intangarugero muri ibi ni bi nawe urishima. Urumva ko ari urugendo rwiza ku gihugu.

IGIHE: Ni iki uvuga ku bantu bavuga ko muba muharanira imyanya, ko aricyo muba mushyize imbere kurusha inyungu z’abaturage ?

Frank Habineza: Hari abantu bajya bavuga ngo duharanire imyanya, nk’aho ari ikintu kibi. Ntabwo ari ikintu kibi kubera ko iyo utabonye umwanya, utabona ubuvugizi, kandi iyo utabonye umwanya ntabwo ukora bya bindi wifuzaga gukora.

Tubiharanira kubera ko iyo ubonye umwanya muri guverinoma ugira uruhare noneho kurusha utarimo. Ushobora gushyira mu bikorwa gahunda ya wa Perezida watowe noneho nawe mukaba mwaganira. Ushobora guha igitekerezo Perezida wa Repubulika kikaba cyagira uruhare runini.

IGIHE: Ariko umwanya mu nteko mwarawubonye, muracyashaka indi ?

Frank Habineza: Turi mu nteko nyine ariko ntituraganira nawe. Ariko iyo uri muri guverinoma ushobora kuganira nawe rero urumva itandukaniro rihari. Nkavuga nti iyo myanya kuyiharanira bifasha abanyapolitiki gushyira mu bikorwa bya byifuzo byabo, bya bitekerezo.

IGIHE: None se mu nteko ntimushobora gutanga ibitekerezo ? Hatumizwa ba Minisitiri mukababaza ibitagenda, mukareba ishyirwa mu bikorwa rya gahunda izi n’izi. Ubu ni ngombwa kugira ngo ujye muri guverinoma ngo impinduka ziboneke ?

Frank Habineza: Mu nteko turabikora rwose, dutanga ibitekerezo byacu mu buryo butandukanye, ari muri za komisiyo, ari mu nteko rusange, ari mu igenzura rya guverinoma, aho hose turabikora kandi bifite akamaro, bifite icyo bimara ariko bifite aho bigarukira.

Kuko iyo utanga ibitekerezo, uwo ubwiye ni we ugomba kubishyira mu bikorwa. Uwo ubwiye iyo agiye kubishyira mu bikorwa, wa wundi ashobora kutabishyira mu bikorwa uzamubaza ngo kuki utabishyize mu bikorwa? Ariko azaba yaramaze gushyira mu bikorwa ibye. Rero igenzura riza nyuma, nyuma yo gushyirwa mu bikorwa.

IGIHE: Mu gihe umaze ni iki mwabonye mu mikorere y’inteko gikwiye guhinduka ?

Frank Habineza: Hari amategeko amwe ari mu nteko agora kugira ngo umudepite avugire abaturage.

Urugero : Hari abaturage bari gusenyerwa, bari mu manegeka mu Mujyi wa Kigali, bakabashyira mu mashuri mwabonye ko hari abatarabyishimiye. Nandikiye inteko nshaka kugaragaza ikibazo, kuko byagaragaraga ko abaturage bose barakaye.

Nandikiye inteko ngira ngo tukiganireho, ariko barabyanze ngo kuko amategeko atatwemerera, bidashoboka ko umudepite ajya kuvuga ikibazo cy’abaturage hariya, bisaba ko abaturage aribo bakwandikira, hanyuma wowe ukabona kubivuga mu nteko, ariko wowe ntiwagenda ngo uvuge ikibazo cy’umuturage. Urumva ko ibyo bintu atari byo.

IGIHE: Hari indi mitwe ya politiki musangiye icyo gitekerezo?

Frank Habineza: Simbizi niba hari indi dusangiye icyo gitekerezo gusa twe nibyo bitekerezo byacu.

IGIHE: Hanyuma ni iki mwishimira Green Party yagizemo uruhare kuva mwagera mu Nteko?

Frank Habineza: Ni byinshi. Nk’ubu hari icyo twari twavuze ubwo twari mu bikorwa byo kwiyamamaza, tubwira abaturage ngo nibadutora, ntituzaba abadepite bo kubasaba amajwi ko ahubwo tuzaza tukaganira.

Ndashimira Inteko ko abadepite babasura cyane, uretse muri iki gihe cya COVID-19 ariko urabona ko mbere basuraga abaturage. Ibindi twishimira ni uko twari twavuze ko abarimu bakongererwa umushahara, bakaba barongeyeho 10%, n’ubwo twari twifuje ko bagira n’isoko rya Mwarimu ariko urabona ko bimwe byakozwe.

Ikindi nakwishimira ni uko twari twasabye ko abasirikare bakongererwa imishahara, mwabonye ko hari akagiyeho n’abapolisi bagahabwa inzu nabyo mwabonye ko hari ibyakozwe.

Ikindi ni uko ubwo niyamamazaga mu matora ya Perezida wa Repubulika mu majyaruguru nari navuze ko nzazana icyogajuru mu kirere cyacu, kiturindira umutekano wacu, kidufashe guteza imbere igihugu cyacu, navuga ngo harabura akantu gato cyane [aseka] , ariko mwaje kubona ko leta y’u Rwanda yabyemeye. Ndetse wabonye ko atari kimwe ko ahubwo tumaze kugira nka bibiri mu kirere, ahubwo bizaze ari byinshi.

IGIHE: Iriya gahunda y’icyogajuru ni igitekerezo cyawe?

Frank Habineza: Ntubizi se ? Tukigera mu karere ka Nyabihu niho twabivugiye, nta na hamwe byari byanditse ko hazaza icyogajuru, bavuze za gari ya moshi, iby’imodoka zo mu kirere ariko nta wari waravuze icyogajuru. Nitwe ba mbere bakivuze. Nta wundi wigeze abivuga ariko twe twarabyanditse. Turashima ko leta yabihaye agaciro.

Ni byinshi twagiye tugaragaza kandi leta ikagenda ibyemera, turabiyishimira kandi natwe biduha imbaraga zo gutekereza ku gihugu cyacu.

IGIHE: Nko ku musharaha wa mwarimu, wumva yahembwa angahe ?

Frank Habineza: Umuntu ubona ibihumbi 40, ndumva akeneye nk’ibihumbi 100 ngo abe yabaho. Ubwo mvuze uw’ibihumbi 40 n’uw’ibihumbi 100 Frw aba akwiye kubona ibihumbi 200.

Urabizi ko twasabye ko buri kazi kose gakorwa mu Rwanda habaho umushahara fatizo. Nk’ubu turacyafite umusharaha fatizo wo mu 1980, ntibihuye n’ibihe tugezemo.

IGIHE: Wumva umushahara fatizo wagakwiye kuba angahe?

Frank Habineza : Ibintu by’ umubyizi, umuntu ukora umubyizi abone nibura 1000 Frw ku munsi ni ukuvuga ngo ni nka kazi ko hasi uba watangiriyeho. Nk’ubu nabaye mu gihugu kimwe cy’i Burayi, Suède, umuntu utangira akazi ko hasi k’ibanze ahembwa nka miliyoni na 200 ku kwezi. Murambabarira mvuze Suède yo ifite ubukungu kuruta ubwacu ariko ni urugero. Nibura uwatangira akazi ko hasi yagatangiriye ku bihumbi 100. Bazabyigeho barebe.

IGIHE: Nk’umutwe wa politiki uvuga ko utavuga rumwe na leta, mwitandukanya gute n’abantu bavuga ko bari muri opozisiyo ?

Frank Habineza: Dutangira twavuze ko turi opozisiyo ariko opozisiyo yacu ari mu buryo bw’amahoro.Tuvuga ngo dushake ubutegetsi ariko dushake na demokarasi.

Kuvuga ngo ndashaka ubutegetsi mu buryo bwose bushoboka, abandi ni ko bavuga, ni ukuvuga ngo haza inzira zo kurwana cyangwa iy’amatora, mu nzira zose zishoboka, icyo gihe haza iyo guhohotera cyane mu bintu byo gukoresha ingufu no kumena amaraso kugira ngo ugere ku butegetsi.

Twe si yo nzira twanyuzemo ngo tugere ku butegetsi, turifuza ubuyobozi binyuze mu mahoro, mu nzira ya demokarasi. Kubera iyo mpamvu hari n’amahame tugenderaho, amahame agera kuri atandatu tugenderaho. Muri ayo harimo iryo kudakoresha ingufu.

IGIHE: Ni ubuhe butumwa waha abari muri opozisiyo, imitwe ya RNC n’abandi bari hanze y’igihugu ?

Frank Habineza: Urumva icyo nasobanura, hari ikinyuranyo cyo kutavuga rumwe n’ubutegetsi no kurwanya ubutegetsi. Ni ukuvuga ngo kurwanya ubutegetsi ni ukuba wafata imbunda ndetse no gukoresha izindi nzira ngo ubukureho.

Naho kutavuga rumwe n’ubutegetsi ni uko hari ibitekerezo runaka by’ishyaka runaka, ukavuga ngo ibi bitekerezo simbyemera njye mfite ibindi numva byaba byayobora.

Icyo gihe uravuga uti ndaca mu baturage mbabwire, nibangirira icyizere nzabashe kubigeraho. Ubutumwa nabagira ni uko inzira yo kurwanya ubutegetsi atari yo nzira ikwiye.

IGIHE: Nk’umunyapolitike, ifatwa rya Paul Rusesabagina waryakiriye ute?

Frank Habineza: Naryakiriye nk’isomo rikomeye kubera ko nabwiye bagenzi banjye bo hirya no hino ku isi, bifuzaga ko twabashyigikira mu bintu byo gukuraho ubutegetsi tudakoresheje inzira za demokarasi. Nkababwira ko ibi nta bishyigikiye, njye nshyigikiye ko ubutegetsi bwavaho dukoresheje inzira za demokarasi, duciye mu matora.

Bakabihakana, bakavuga ngo ibintu murimo bizatinda, ntimuzabigeraho, ni bande babigezeho? Reba Besigye wa Uganda ntiyabigezeho, dore Tsvangirai yapfuye ntacyo agezeho, dore Odinga agiye gusaza ntacyo agezeho... Nkababwira ngo ntabwo nabashyigikira.

Rero ni isomo ryiza cyane babone ko ibyo bashaka atari yo nzira ngo babone ubutegetsi. Nkavuga ngo ibyo murimo ntabwo bizaramba. Nk’iyo babonye umukuru wabo afashwe, n’abandi barafashwe mu minsi ishize no mu myaka ishize biba ari amasomo.

Navuga ngo ni isomo ryiza ku muntu ushaka kwiga [...] Ibi ntabwo ariyo nzira, inzira nziza ni inzira y’ibiganiro, inzira y’amahoro. Niba bashaka n’ibiganiro babishake mu nzira zindi, twebwe nk’ishyaka riharanira demokarasi, dushaka inzira y’ibiganiro.

Source: https://igihe.com/politiki/article/imyaka-ibiri-mu-nteko-ibyo-yasezeranyije-abaturage-ifatwa-rya-rusesabagina