Impungenge ku kwakira abimukira zishingira ku ki? - Ikiganiro na Dr Frank Habineza

Depite Frank Habineza yashinje ibihugu bikomeye guteza ibibazo bituma habaho abimukira benshi n’impunzi, ku buryo ari byo bigomba kubishakira igisubizo kirambye, aho kwitabaza u Rwanda.

Mu kwezi gushize, u Rwanda rwasinyanye n’u Bwongereza amasezerano y’imyaka itanu, azatuma rwakira abimukira babarirwa mu bihumbi, binjiye mu Bwongereza mu buryo bunyuranyije n’amategeko guhera ku wa 1 Mutarama 2022.

Kuva muri Mutarama kugeza muri Mata uyu mwaka, nibura abimukira basaga 4.500 binjiye mu Bwongereza mu buryo butemewe.

Nyamara urebye nk’umwaka ushize wose, hinjiye abimukira 28.526, umubare wazamutse cyane ugereranyije na 8.404 mu 2020.

Ni imibare iteye inkeke, ndetse muri uyu mwaka bashobora kuzagera mu 60.000 kubera ibibazo birimo intambara yo muri Ukraine.

Imibare igaragaza ko mu 2021, urebye ibihugu abimukira baturutsemo cyane, Abanya- Iran bihariye 30% ; 21% ni Abanya-Iraq, 11% ni Abanya-Eritrea naho 9% ni Abanya-Syria.

Icukumbura ryerekanye ko aba bimukira batanga amafaranga menshi kugira ngo bambutswe, ari hagati ya 3.000 na 7.000 by’amayero, ni ukuvuga hagati ya miliyoni 3-8 Frw.

Banyura mu nzira y’amazi iri hagati y’u Bufaransa n’u Bwongereza, izwi nka English Channel.

Mu kiganiro cyihariye na IGIHE, Dr Habineza yavuze ko ibi bihugu bikomeye ari byo biteza ibibazo, bityo u Rwanda rudakwiye guheka umusaraba wabyo.

IGIHE: Amasezerano y’u Rwanda n’u Bwongereza mwayakiriye mute?

Habineza: Byaje bitunguranye, ntabwo twari tuzi ko bimaze iminsi byigwaho.

Twahise tubyigaho, dusanga tutabishyigikira kubera ko, icya mbere, iyo impunzi iguhungiyeho urayitabara, ukaza kwiga ku bibazo byayo ariko wabanje kuyakira.

Tukavuga ngo izo mpunzi ntabwo zahungiye kuri twebwe, zahungiye mu Bwongereza.

Twumva twe icyo gihe nibo bagombye kuba babatabara, nibo bagombye kuba babafasha, bakamenya n’impamvu baje, bazabona izo mpamvu zidafatika, icyo gihe habaho ibindi byemezo byafatwa.

Twaje gutungurwa no kumva ko u Rwanda rugiye gufasha u Bwongereza kwakira izo mpunzi zahungiye iwabo, ngo zize hano mu Rwanda.

Ni izihe mpamvu zindi mwashingiyeho

Ibintu byose uko bimeze, ntabwo ari twebwe twavuga ko turi igihugu kinini kirusha u Bwongereza, tukaba twavuga ngo twabatuza kurusha abandi.

Noneho ibijyanye n’umutungo kamere, abo bazakenera inkwi zo guteka, bazakenera amazi yo kunywa, kandi mu by’ukuri twirebyeho hano, nta mashyamba dufite twarayamaze [...] natwe dukeneye indi nyunganizi.

Abo bantu bandi bazimukira hano, uko bizagenda kose bazabyara , bazororoka, bagire imiryango. Ntibizaba ikindi gitutu twongereye ku gihugu? Bizongera umutwaro ku gihugu cyacu.

Kandi twabonye ko ari amasezerano y’imyaka itanu, nirangira uwahisemo gutura hano, kuba mu Rwanda, azaba ababaye umwenegihugu, azajya mu ngengo y’imari yacu nk’abandi bose uko tubayeho.

Tukavuga tuti kandi uwo muntu uje yari asanzwe amenyereye, yarahawe icyo 1000$ cyangwa se cy’amapawundi (ni miliyoni 1 Frw) yo kumutunga buri kwezi, noneho azagera aho wenda abure akazi ko gukora, bizateza akavuyo hagati yabo natwe.

Icya mbere bazaba bafite amafaranga yo kurya, yo guhaha, twebwe tutayafite kandi duhahira ku isoko rimwe. Bishobora no kuzana izamuka ry’ibiciro.

Noneho wa muntu ayo mafaranga amushiranye, na we agomba kuza noneho tugasangira duke dufite, urumva ko bizaba ikindi kibazo muri sosiyete.

Noneho tukavuga tuti mu by’ukuri mu bukire, u Bwongereza burakize kurusha u Rwanda.

Ese ko bakize kurusha u Rwanda, nubwo bagiye kuduha ayo mafaranga, bo ntibari kuyakoresha mu gukemura ivyo bobazo.

None mutekereza ko ari ukubera iki u Bwongereza budashaka ko baguma ku butaka bwabwo, bukabohereza ahandi?

Dusesenguye dusanga hari indi politiki ibyihishe inyuma. Ni ya yindi yo kwanga abarabu, yo kwanga abirabura, iri mu bihugu by’i Burayi.

Bamaze igihe badakunda abirabura, badashaka abimukira, badashaka abarabu bavuga ngo tubatwara akazi, ngo dufata abagore babo ku ngufu, ngo amabi yose nitwebwe tuyakora, kandi nabo bayakora ariko bakabishyira kuri twebwe abarabu n’abirabura.

Mbese ugasanga no kubica bakabica, muri Amerika ejo bundi bishe umwirabura.

Noneho nkavuga nti iyo politiki yo kwanga abarabu n’abirabura usanga ariyo tugiye kubamo abafatanyabikorwa, kuko twebwe nk’igihugu cyacu ntabwo tugira ibintu byo kuvangura.

Kuvangura twabikuyemo amasomo akomeye cyane, twabivuyemo, ariko abandi baracyabirimo, noneho tujye kubatwaza umutwaro wabo, tugiye kuba abafatanyabikorwa cyangwa abafatanyacyaha muri iyo politiki yabo mbi.

Kuko nk’igihugu cy’u Bwongereza bagize politiki yo kuvuga ngo ntibashaka no kubana n’abandi b’i Burayi, bo bashaka kubaho bonyine igihugu cyabo cyigenge, ntibashaka gutanga akazi kuri abo banyaburayi, bava no mu Bumwe bw’u Burayi, cya kintu cyiswe Brexit kubera iyo politiki.

Noneho uwari ubishyigikiye cyane cyangwa uwabiharaniye ni uyu Minisitiri w’Intebe Johnson (Boris) uriho ubu, ni we wari ubishyigikiye cyane ashaka ko bava mu Burayi.

Noneho urumva mu bintu yagiye yizeza abaturage, n’ibi by’abimukira atashakaga nabyo birimo, akavuga ati ‘reka mbikize vuba, nzabone amajwi.”

Ni ukuvuga ngo twebwe turi muri politiki zabo z’imbere mu gihugu, dufatanye nabo mu bintu bishobora o kuzatugiraho ingaruka.

U Rwanda n’u Bwongereza bigaragaza ko uburyo bwifashishwa mu bibazo by’abimukira budatanga ibisubizo. Hari ubundi buryo mubona bwakoreshwa, uretse aya masezerano?

Twebwe twumvaga, icya mbere niba bashaka gukemura kino kibazo cy’impunzi n’abimukira, bagomba kujya mu mizi y’ikibazo.

Imizi y’ikibazo ni uko bino bihugu bikize byatwaye umutungo wacu, byakolonije Afurika, byakolonije Aziya ndetse na Amerika y’amajyepfo n’amajyaruguru, byatwaye umutungo wacu mwinshi cyane, birakira.

Ntabwo ari ibanga nk’igihugu cya Congo cyigeze kubaho ari umutungo bwite w’umwami w’u Bubilibi witwaga Leopold, akavuga ati ‘uyu ni umutungo wanjye bwite’, umutungo wose uva muri Congo n’abantu n’iki byose, batwaraga mu Bubiligi.

Ntanze urwo rugero, n’ahandi ni uko bimeze. U Bwongereza muzi ko bwari bufite n’ubwami bugari, bwakolonije isi yose, bwakuyeyo ibintu byinshi cyane.

Icya mbere bagombye gukora ni uko uwo mutungo batwaye bawugaruraho nibura ⅓ cyangwa se ⅕, bazane muri bya bihugu bakolonije mbere.

Ikintu bita inkunga mpuzamahanga batanga ni akantu gatoya, ni nk’agatonyanga mu nyanja. Iyo wumvise ibintu batanga ni nka 0.03% ku bukungu mbumbe bw’igihugu cyabo.

Ariko bavuze ngo tuzatanga nka 15% by’ubukungu bwacu tubisubize muri Afurika, mu by’ukuri akazi kaboneka muri Afurika, imihanda myiza yaboneka, amashuri meza yaboneka, ku buryo nta muntu wakwifuza kujya mu mbeho y’ Burayi afite ibyiza hano.

Ariko abantu bajya iriya bavuga bati ‘tujye kubona amashuri meza, tujye kubona ubuzima bwiza hariya,’ kubera ko hano muri Afurika no muri Aziya biba byabaye ikibazo.

Ni wo muti urambye, basubize ku byo batwaye tutabemereye, batugarurireho gatoya.

Hari ibihangano by’ubugeni batangiye kugenda babigarura, ni byiza ndabishima, ariko nyine nta kashi zirimo.

Bya bindi batwaye, zahabu yacu, amashyamba yacu n’abantu bacu bakoresheje ubucakara n’ibindi byose, bagire ikintu batugarurira, ni wo muti urambye wa mbere.

Umuti wa kabiri urabye [...] turashaka ko barekeraho gukora ibyo bintu byo gushyigikira iyo mitwe yitwaje intwaro, muri Congo hariya murumva ko hariyo imitwe irenze 100, yose iba ifite imbunda n’ibindi bitwaro bikomeye cyane.

Ntabwo babitoragura mu muhanda, babikura i Burayi no muri Amerika n’ahandi. Barekere aho.

Icya gagatu, bashyigikire ko habaho politiki nziza mu bihugu biri mu nzira y’amajyambere muri Afurika no muri Aziya no muri Amerika y’amajyepfo, barebe ko demokarasi ishinga imizi, barekere aho guteza izo ntambara, bafite n’izindi ngahunda bateza imbere.

N’inkunga batangaga nayo bakomeze bayitange, bashyigikire ubuyobozi bwiza buba buri mu bihugu bya Afurika.

Kuko abantu bahunga bahunga ubuyobozi bubi, bahunga inzara, bahunga ubukene, bahunga n’intambara.

Naho ibi birimo gukorwa ni igisubizo cy’akanya gato. Kuko nubwo u Rwanda ruri bwakire abo bimukira bavuye mu Bwongereza, ntibizabuza abandi kujyayo. Nibatajya no mu Bwongereza bazajya n’ahandi.

Bifuze ko ari bo bateza ikibazo, ko bakwiye no kugikemura?

Nibo bagiteje kuko nibo batwaye ibintu byacu byinshi cyane kugira ngo Afurika ikomeze ikene, ntabwo ari uko abanyafurika badafite ubwenge cyangwa se ubushobozi.

Ni uko bari barakolonijwe, bababuza amahwemo, babatwara ibintu byabo, batwara n’abantu babo n’iki byose.

Na n’ubu hari izindi politii zakurikiyeho na nyuma y’ubukoloni nazo zikitugoye za ‘neo-colonialisme’, ukabona baracyafite ijambo nubwo ubukoloni bwarangiye, ariko hari izindi ngufu bakoresha mu kugenzura isi yose.

Hari izindi ntambwe mutekereza gutera zo kugaragaza ko mudashyigikiye aya masezerano?

Ntabwo navuga ko ari twebwe tugomba gutera intwambwe, abagomba gutera intambwe ni abo bireba, ni ziriya mpunzi cyangwa abimukira bagomba kuzana.

Ni bo bafite uburenganzira bwo kujya kurega mu nkiko bagasaba ko batazanwa mu Rwanda.

Raporo zitandukanye zagiye zigaragaza ko mu Rwanda nta burenganzira buhari bwo gutanga ibitekerezo. Wowe utinyuka ute kunenga icyemezo cyafashwe na Guverinoma?

Abantu bavuga ibintu bya kera. Njyewe navuga ko ibyo bavuga ko leta y’u Rwanda ngo ntabwo ishaka ko abantu bavuga n’iki byose, ni ibintu bya kera biri mu mateka.

Habayemo impinduka nyinshi cyane, aho twatangirije ishyaka ritavuga rumwe n’ubutegetsi mu 2009, hari intambwe nyinshi zagiye ziterwa.

Twagiye dutanga ibitekerezo byacu, yewe na mbere y’uko ishyaka ryacu ryemerwa leta yarabyumvaga, bimwe bigakosorwa, aho rimaze no kwemererwa bigenda byumvikana cyane [...]

Navuga ko iyo leta abantu bavuga ari iya kera, ntabwo ari Leta y’ubu.

Twese dufite uburenganzira bwo gutanga ibitekerezo, kandi umuntu abitanze neza ndumva nta kibazo cyaba gihari. Kereka umuntu agiye gutaga ibitekerezo atukana, icyo gihe waba wishe amategeko.

Mu minsi ishize hari abantu mwirukanye mu ishyaka mubashinja ko bashakaga kurisenya. Ikibazo cyararangiye?

Twarabirukanye. Twafashe kiriya cyemezo nyuma y’uko twari dufite ibimenyetso bifatika by’ubugambanyi bari baragaragaje, tubifataho umwanzura turabirukana.

Kandi cyari icyemezo ntakuka, byararangiye. Ubu ishyaka riratekanye rwose, nta kibazo na kimwe dufite.

Twitege ko ishyaka ryanyu rizagaruka mu matora ari imbere?

Ndakeka ko abantu bazabibona ko hari byinshi byahindutse. Kuko mu by’ukuri ibyo twabijeje byinshi twarabikoze, ntabwo twigeze tubahemukira mu kuvuga ngo twageze mu nteko turaceceka.

Ibyo twabijeje twarabikoze kandi turacyabikora kuko manda iracyarimo.

Icya kabiri, twagize ubunararibonye, twize byinshi, buriya ishyaka ritavuga rumwe n’ubutegetsi riri mu nzego za leta n’iritari mu nzego za leta, imikorere iratandukana.

Hari abantu bamwe bavuga ngo ese ko ba Frank batavuze kuri iki kintu, ariko ntibamenye ko habamo imikoranire itandukanye, kuko iyo uri mu nzego zifata ibyemezo nk’iyo uri mu nteko, biba bisaba ko iyo ugiye kuvuga ikintu uba ugifitye ibimenyetso, ukamenya uti ibyo mvuga mbihagazeho.

Naho iyo utari mu nzego za leta ntabwo ri na ngombwa cyane ko ukora iryo perereza ryose ngo ubihagarareho, ushobora kuvuga uti ‘hariya nabonye ariya mazi yasenye amazu’.

Ishobora kuba ari inzu imwe, ariko ukavuga amazu menshi. Icyo gihe Meya akajyayo akavuga ati dusanze inzu ari imwe gusa, ariko icyo gihe ikibazo nta kiba gihari [...]

Twagiye tunareba ahandi ku mashyaka atavuga rumwe n’ubutegetsi ari muri nzego z’ubuyobozi uko bakora, ariko ntabwo wafata ibyo muri Uganda cyangwa Afurika y’Epfo ngo ubiterure ubizane hano, ntabwo byakunda.

Twagiye dufata ingero nziza nko muri Suede, nko mu Bwongereza, no muri Amerika hari ingero nziza twagiye dufata, tujya tuganira tukareba uko twakora neza kurushaho.

Hari ibyo twagiye twiga ku bandi kuko dufite amateka yihariye nk’u Rwanda nk’igihugu cyabayemo Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi, ntabwo wagifata ngo ukigereranye Kenya bitabayemo ibibazo bimwe.

Ushobora kuguva ngo Bobi Wine yafashe intebe akubita mu nteko ubuzima burakomeza, mu Rwanda ufashe intebe ugakubita abadepite bagenzi bawe hariya abantu bahahamuka, bakavuga bati ‘intambara yagarutse’.

I Bugande byarabaye ntibabona ko ari ikindi cyabaye, mur Afurika y’Epfo barabikora umuntu kaba yavuga hariya agatuka perezida ubuzima bugakomeza, ariko mu Rwanda ubikoze bvuga bati eh, bya bindi bakoze 1994 byaje.

Mubona mute umusanzu mutanga nk’ishyaka?

Turishimira umusanzu turimo gutanga, ariko turifuza gutanga n’urenzeho.

Haracyari imbogamizi nyine muri politiki ziba zihari zitandukanye, ari iz’imbere mu ishyaka no hanze, tuzakomeza duhangane nazo, icya ngombwa ni uko haba ubushake bwa politiki.

Bwo biragaragara ko buhari ku ruhande rwa Leta y’u Rwanda, bwo kuba demokarasi yatezwa imbere.

Ntabwo ari inshingano za FPR Inkotanyi kugira ngo iteze imbere opozosiyo, ni inshingano zacu ko yo kuba opozisiyo ikomeye.

Hari ibyo dusaba, ni ugushyiraho umwuka mwiza wa politiki, wajya mu giturage Meya ntakugendeho cyangwa ntagende ku bantu bawe, kuko murabizi ko byabagaho, ba Meya bagirira nabi abantu bacu.

Ariko byaragabanutse cyane rwose, ubu nta muntu bagihohotera, urumva ko wa mwuka mwiza wa politiki uragenda uba mwiza kurushaho.

Twitege Green Party mu matora ataha?

Dufite amatora y’abadepite mu mwaka utaha mu kwezi kwa munani, ubushize twabonye 5% tubona abadepite babiri.

Ubu turimo gukora cyane, turashaka gushyiramo imbaraga nyinshi cyane ku buryo tuzagera mu gihe cy’amatora, nibura tuve kuri 5% tugere ku 10% nibura, niba twarabonye abadepite babiri, tubone batanu nibura.

Nicyo cyifuzo cyacu kandi twumva ko bishoboka.

Amatora ya perezida wa repubulika nayo azaba muri 2024, nayo nta kabuza tuzayitabira kandi twarabivuze.

Ndizera ko icyo gihe amajwi twabonye ubushize azazamuka, azikuba inshuro nyinshi cyane. Bityo igihe Imana izaba yabishakiye tuzatsinda, ariko n’iyo utatsinda cyane ubutaha, ku buryo tugira amajwi ashimishije nibura atanga icyizere.

Source: Impungenge ku kwakira abimukira zishingira ku ki? - Ikiganiro na Dr Frank Habineza | IGIHE